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The Laws of Laws

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The Laws of Laws

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The Laws of Laws

Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:27 am
The Laws of Laws

What are the general Laws of "Laws" themselves ? They are repetitive, can be applied again and again in different situations and things behave similarly (the same?), but then do they always imply time and space ? do you need a memory to remember that the laws are the same and repetitive ?

The Laws of how Laws are constructed are mostly the Laws of how a Processor, Observer decodes an input according to the laws fixed within the Decoder, Processor, Observer, in short, the Man Brain. Change the way the Brain is set up and you change the very essence of Laws themselves, you deconstruct and tear apart laws the themselves, the Laws of Physics couldn't exist if you didn't already have the concept of Laws already present in your narrative, discourse, in your Mind, etc.

But the Laws of Laws themself are Arbitrary, as usual, and even the Laws of the Laws of Laws, and the Laws of Change, etc. All arbitrary repetitive, recursive patterns that make sense to something that decided what patterns were in the first place, that hard wired them as Absolute invariants otherwise it couldn't work at all, couldn't even notice "Laws" at all, decode them or work at all...

I AM THE OVERMAN (as imagined by Frank Zappa).

12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR

As in Free Physics...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179812

nameta9
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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:36 am
Taken from:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/snake-garden.html


From:

http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it

http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it

Author Profile Page tegmark | October 25, 2012 6:42 AM | Reply

and

http://instantsingularity.blogspot.it


THE APE MAN, THE 8 MEN...

TOBOR SPEAKING



For a complete list of books by James Howard Kunstler and purchase links, click here.

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby James S Saint » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Laws are formed from Consistencies. It doesn't matter who or what observed or deduced them.
Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

Respect the morons.
We are all there is.

What you don't see is what you fall into.

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:54 pm

    James S Saint wrote:Laws are formed from Consistencies. It doesn't matter who or what observed or deduced them.



yeah, new words, new old stuff, already said, saying the same old things with new symbols and such, the identity principle and such, I am at a much higher abstraction level, the Laws of Laws are way beyond what you think I am talking about, I am already past logic, at a higher dimension, a higher state, but you just use puny logic over and over again, kill logic, kill reasoning, kill truth, I win forever...

Memory Kills the Future

Everything has been invented and done, now we have a huge memory of all past inventions and things, nothing is left to do. Everything is already heard, everything discovered, nothing is left, we must erase all of the past memory of all knowledge and science and invent things all over again forever and then forget all over again: case in point, the generation that lived before WW 2 was kind of cancelled by the war, a new generation came and invented Rock music (why can't a new band like the Beatles come again ? because it has been done, no young group can invent all the novelty all over again, same for Woodstock, counterculture and all such), and then the invention of the Microprocessor and so many new things, a young generation had all of those possible inventions waiting, now it has all been done, we are at the end of the road, all is memorized in the internet, all is finished, erase the memory, start all over again, the memory blocks creativity, the young can't invent everything all over again, they are condemned to do nothing for the rest of their lives, it is all over, (playing with smart phones is an example of a peaked society and culture, it is all old stuff being done over and over again, the camera, the blogs, whatever), science too as a memory device, the internet as a memory device making everyone idle since it all has been done.

I have explained all of philosophy once and for all on my posts, now it is all over, there is nothing left to invent, hence we must erase all, free all memories from the past, forget the past, and do it all over again forever, no cultural stimulus when you already heard that music and read those ideas and such, so kill memory, invent all new things, forget all, forgetting will set the young free to repeat all over again, all the"old" new things, etc.

That is why only devastating and changing the Brain Circuits is the only real novelty left, nothing else is left, change the Brain circuits and you really create infinite novelties forever...

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby finishedman » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:17 pm
I understand your problem. The actions of life are outside the field of thought. Life is simply a process of stimulus and response; and stimulus and response are one unitary movement. But it is thought that separates them and says that this is the response and that is the stimulus. Any action that is born out of thinking is destructive in its nature because thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. Any action that is outside the field of thought is one continuous movement. It is one with the movement of life. It is that flow of things. You don't even have to paddle out of the mainstream on to the banks there. But there is fear of sinking in it.

If energy is not wasted in pursuit of some certainties offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up being wasted, misled and misspent individuals. If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of these complexities of the world created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to sidestep these complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.

That energy is something which cannot be defined and which cannot be understood. The moment the dead thought tries to capture that energy, thought is destroyed. Thought is matter. The moment it is created, it has to be destroyed. But that is the very thing that we resist. Thought is born and is destroyed, and again it is born and again it is destroyed. The only way you can give continuity to thought is through this constant demand to experience everything. This is the only way you try to maintain the continuity of the `experiencing structure'.
Without knowledge you can't experience anything. What you do not know, you cannot experience. It is the knowledge that creates the experience, and it is the experience that strengthens the knowledge. At every moment of our existence, we have to know what is happening outside of us and what is happening inside of us. That is the only way you can maintain this continuity.

Coming back to what you said earlier about rejecting the whole past - the experiences, thoughts and everything.... It’s not something that you can do through any effort, will or volition of yours. It's a miracle. That happens to you despite everything you do. Everything you do only blocks it. It prevents the possibility of whatever is there to express itself. Not that you have gained anything. Only what is there is able to express itself without any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed on it by society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby The Idiot » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:44 pm

    finishedman wrote:I understand your problem. The actions of life are outside the field of thought. Life is simply a process of stimulus and response; and stimulus and response are one unitary movement. But it is thought that separates them and says that this is the response and that is the stimulus. Any action that is born out of thinking is destructive in its nature because thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. Any action that is outside the field of thought is one continuous movement. It is one with the movement of life. It is that flow of things. You don't even have to paddle out of the mainstream on to the banks there. But there is fear of sinking in it.

    If energy is not wasted in pursuit of some certainties offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up being wasted, misled and misspent individuals. If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of these complexities of the world created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to sidestep these complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.

    That energy is something which cannot be defined and which cannot be understood. The moment the dead thought tries to capture that energy, thought is destroyed. Thought is matter. The moment it is created, it has to be destroyed. But that is the very thing that we resist. Thought is born and is destroyed, and again it is born and again it is destroyed. The only way you can give continuity to thought is through this constant demand to experience everything. This is the only way you try to maintain the continuity of the `experiencing structure'.
    Without knowledge you can't experience anything. What you do not know, you cannot experience. It is the knowledge that creates the experience, and it is the experience that strengthens the knowledge. At every moment of our existence, we have to know what is happening outside of us and what is happening inside of us. That is the only way you can maintain this continuity.

    Coming back to what you said earlier about rejecting the whole past - the experiences, thoughts and everything.... It’s not something that you can do through any effort, will or volition of yours. It's a miracle. That happens to you despite everything you do. Everything you do only blocks it. It prevents the possibility of whatever is there to express itself. Not that you have gained anything. Only what is there is able to express itself without any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed on it by society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.



This is a bit off topic so I'm sorry (I'll get right back on topic) but are you familiar with the works of Krishnamurti? Whenever I read your posts I feel like your presentation and your thoughts themselves are quite in tune with that mans thoughts. I'm just curious.

Now back on topic.

You say that the actions of life are outside the field of thought. Can you relate this to Death? I mean that, if continuity of existence is dependent upon thought, but thought is always there (or always returns, rather) then what is the difference between "death" and death of thought? When thought stops. When thought completely stops, is that "death"? Is eternal life all there ever is? Is death just a "thought" itself?

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby finishedman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:35 am
Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you'. There is nothing there inside you other than that.

You cannot measure anything unless you have a point. So, if the center is absent, there is no circumference at all. That is pure and simple basic arithmetic.
The subject does not exist there. It is the object that creates the subject. This runs counter to a lot of philosophical thinking. It is the object that creates the subject and not the subject that creates the object. This is a simple physiological phenomenon which can be tested. For example, if there is no object there, there is no subject here. What creates the subject is the object.

There is light. If the light is not there you have no way of looking at anything. The light falls on that object, and the reflection of that light activates the optic nerves, which in turn activate the memory cells. When the memory cells are activated, all the knowledge you have about that object comes into cooperation. It is that process which is happening there that has created the subject. And the subject is the knowledge you have about it. When you reduce it to that you feel the absurdity of talking about the self -- the lower self, the higher self and self knowing, self-knowledge, knowing from moment to moment is nonsense. You can indulge in such and build up philosophical theories, but there is no subject there at all at any time. There is no subject creating the object.

There is no permanent entity there at all. What is there (what you call "I") is only a first person singular pronoun. If you don't want to use that word "I" to prove that you are a man without "I", it is your privilege. That's all that is there. There is no permanent entity there at all.

While you are living, the knowledge that is there does not belong to you. So, why are you concerned as to what will happen after what you call "you" is gone? The physical body is functioning from moment to moment because that is the way the sensory perceptions are. To talk of living from moment to moment, by creating a thought induced state of mind, has no meaning to me except in terms of the physical functioning of the body.

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby finishedman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:34 am

    When thought completely stops, is that "death"?


You cease to be.

    Is eternal life all there ever is?


Mind is interested in creating an artificial immortality -- of an entity, soul, self, whatever you want to call it. It knows in a way that it is coming to an end somewhere along the line, and its survival, its continuity, its status quo depends upon the continuity of the body. But body is not in any way involved with the thought, because it has no beginning, it has no end. It is the thought that has created the two points -- this is the birth and that is the death.

    Is death just a "thought" itself?


It is the thought that has created the body, and established a point and says it's born here, and is going to end there. So it is the thought that has created the time factor.

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:25 pm
From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/apocalyptoween.html

The Future ...

The myth of the future, the myth of destiny, you could have done this or that, if only, if only you did this you would be that or in another place, situation, whatever, etc. This myth is at the basis of all of the problems people force themselves to have (the logical mental problems a Man Brain forces itself to have according to models of cause and effect and control when 99 % of what happens is out of any control at all) the goal, the target, the success reached according to some model or whatever, but the truth is the future doesn't exist, it is not some metaphysical destiny that you could have achieved or should have achieved, the sequence of events that occur mostly just happen with no goal or control or model in mind, no matter how hard you try to control or force things to go in certain ways (the myth of science and finding out why and then how to control the future and such). So if the future doesn't exist and is random and without any control, then it isn't a model, there is nothing to regret or nothing to be sad about since you didn't reach the future you wanted, the future never existed in the first place if only as a figment of the imagination as a utopia as an imagined place that should have and could have been so and so and you could have reached it: nothing further from the truth, there is no future, there is no model, there is no control, there is no metaphysical external future waiting to be reached according to your effort and responsibility and such (but you are forced to think in these terms and force yourself to constantly fail because you didn't reach the fairy land, etc.).

But this is due to the cause and effect and logical model of the world that works so well in so many instances, becoming a mental jail, everything is logical and under control but this control is an illusion, when you least expect it it will deny all of your intentions and hopes and models and since you can't accept that the model of the future was false and impossible to reach, since any and all futures are a wild guess, you blame yourself, you blame some logical consequence, you blame some control you missed, some bad choice you made (or all of the people stuff, she said, she did, he did, all of the family, emotional, career crap and such and blame him or her and lawyers and fights and politics etc.) and such.

But just like god cannot be proven to exist or not exist, the question is in an eternal limbo, and just like it is impossible to pinpoint down what is relative and what is absolute, the same thing happens with all of the narrative of a life, how much control did you have, what could you have done, why didn't that great future occur, who is to blame, what bad choice I made (or someone else made, hence blame him or it or them, etc. and fight and wars and conflicts), if only, if only I could go back and such, it can never be known, it is just suggested, to torture you, to torture your mind with regret and killed hopes and bad choices and with future effort, a lot of effort to reach a future that is and will always be impossible to reach because it doesn't exist anywhere, it only exists the moment it occurs and only for a picosecond only to disappear again and remain in your memory (to keep on torturing you with its imaginary reality, when there is no reality behind anything that has happened, there is no past, another figment of the imagination, the past is just a random collection of bits in your memory in your man brain...), and what occurs moment by moment is so totally random and quirky and without any substance, reality, only a metaphysical invention that worrying about it, planning it, regretting it, projecting future goals is a joke on the mind always, is a joke to torture the mind that will always lose this chess game against god.

But exactly because so many things work and are logical, we are full of perfect machines, perfect programs (like computer programs, predicting and controlling events in the future so perfectly) that we are fooled and induced into thinking that this control and projected future is real and possible and if something good doesn't happen it is our fault since we didn't control or predict well enough and such, and we must regret a bad choice, a bad sequence of events we could have controlled and such. Nothing further from the truth, we can control a lot of things but only up to the point that random events and forces allow us to go, then pure nothing and randomness and pure blind chance will decide for us but leave us tortured and always finding something that should have been but didn't come to be, something or someone to blame, even yourself, mostly yourself, and some further study and investigation, and further research and science to allow us to control something that doesn't exist and will never exist, namely the future, the ghost of an imagined future that can be reached by imagined controls but always a total falsification of reality, as reality doesn't exist, models don't exist, we are constantly being taken for a ride by god, physics, (and the huge success we have ha in controlling a lot of things, but not everything and that is where we always fail) the principles of non contradiction, the identity principles always making us believe in this crap of logic and control and prediction only to hose you when you least expect it etc.

Like the news and newspapers TV, some new catastrophe to worry about, (some new challenges some new bad news to torture you, some new problem, some new threats, constant threats all over the place on any issue) you have to take sides and win or lose, always new news and new problems and new frustration and new impossible problems to solve and such, there is always something new to torture you, some new conflict, some new problem, the entire idea of problems means that there are solutions, but this is false, almost all problems are without any solution since they can only be solved politically, by social consent, but no two people will ever agree on anything, as man is conflict, fight, is conflicting will powers always and such...

Like Global Warming: it can't be demonstrated precisely (because the laws of physics make believe they are precise but they are a hoax, the three body problem can't be solved, hence there are no laws of physics to start with), but it is a possibility, it is suggested that we are wrecking the climate, hence something or someone to blame for the NYC storm and such...

Always these undecided situations, everything is a joke on us, does god exist yes or no ? did you control your future and are you to blame for what happened yes or no ? did you kill the climate by driving yes or no ? and so forth, all undecided, all suggested: the truth is all of these problems aren't problems in the first place because they have no solutions to begin with (or impossible solutions like the whole world stops industrial production and car driving and such, totally insane solutions), they are false problems so don't think about anything anymore, who cares what happens, we are hosed anyways in the end, the future doesn't exist, the past doesn't exist, what happens is pure blind chance, and I am not feeling very well myself anyways...

The future as some external picture outside waiting to happen (or as things happened as we wished but we can't have a part in that imaginary movie), the picture as something that exists and is real, there is no external picture or metaphysical place where the events are playing out as we imagine, there is no future ...

I AM THE OVERMAN (as imagined by Frank Zappa).

12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR

As in Free Physics...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179812

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Re: The Laws of Laws

Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:28 pm
http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/

http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/

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